Re: The Official JJ Johnson Thread

[InSight.]

How does that sound? I would expect the flat to be around 200g less, both around the 2500g weight. Medium-light 20" hats, hmm. I think I tried my extra light over the HD ride once, not too nice.

[Connor.]

I actually sounds fairly good in my opinion. The flat is a little lighter, and both cymbals are pretty heavy compared to your average 14" set so they're pretty hard to control with the pedal. All that can really be done is opening them enough to get an open sound, which can be expected.

They're obviously very dry sounding, being that both cymbals are fairly dry themselves. They're still pretty articulate despite they're size and have a cool trashy sound when played loose.

The Paiste flat ride doesnt belong to me, and is being returned to it's owner this weekend. I thought I'd throw these hats together just for fun while I still had the cymbal.

[Ali G]

haha, sweet hats, Connor. I tried my 20" Evolution and 20" Crash of Doom together as hats, but it just sounded ridiculously uncontrollable. The crash of doom is much too trashy

[Dave-the-drummer]

Cheers Dave.
Yeah I've been exploring the paradiddles a lot and have dug up some really nice ideas, something else that I've been using a lot is my rolls, specifically my five, six, seven and nine stroke rolls. Not for big toms fills, but just tasty little snare rolls, with some accents. Or just keep the groove going, and doing a rolls between the hats and ride. It's small, but they are really nice to incorporate, and not at all hard. It should be really cool to look into them more, I practiced rudiments quite frequently (more than normal) for a few months back, and it was amazing to see how my drumming improved. I wasn't exactly using them in my drumming, but my hands were just so smoother, especially with intricate things.

The biggest problem with one particular band is that they lack the ability to do a normal 4/4 song. I can't even put some of their songs into a time signature. One bar varies from the next, and it's near impossible to drum to, I just have to tell them 'no'. They seem to make the music without thinking about the beat, and it turns out to be a completely random guitar riff that chops in and out of different signatures. It's possible to do without drums, but if they want me to put it in, it sounds very bad because theirs no flow. Something that music listeners want is just a beat, something to tap their foot along to. They make some very, very nice music, I just need to hammer it into their head that they need to think of the beat when they make guitar riffs.

Yea, that can be annoying in a band when there musical drifferences and stuff like that, luckily i used to be a dream theatre maniac so crazy changing time signatures and alternating times sigs don't bother me much personally but thats only because i have had a fair bit of experience with them. Im really into progressive atm aswell which uses some wacky time signature changes.

I really like alteranting time sigs such as going from 8/8 to 6/8 or 4/8 to 5/8 for example. Just like constantly alternating for say a verse and then differnt alterations for a chorus, thats a nice musical way of using more complex rhythms. Maybe your band mates would be up for that, so that at least the music is easier to follow.
Or
if you tried the gavin harrison concept of overriding the time signatures to create some kind of a back beat. That might work. Alternating time sigs can be really nice but sometimes horrible e.g. a video i put on pdf of me and one of my guitarists messing around with like a hypnotic 4/8 to 6/8 ide, that was nice (IMO) but nothing ever came of that idea, it was just an improv.

Good luck for convincing them to change

And lastly, i too like using rolls when i play, especially in jazz. A 2 beat roll, with a crescendo will get you out of ANY hole in jazz IMO hahaha. And rolling between hats and ride i like that in hip/funk grooves, nice touch. Rolls..... i like them........ with jam (that was lame)

[Dave-the-drummer]

Cheers for the specs connor.
I was hoping they weren't a permanent thing ¡This Cheese is Burning Me! hats that big are just crazy, fun but crazy.

[InSight.]

Yea, that can be annoying in a band when there musical drifferences and stuff like that, luckily i used to be a dream theatre maniac so crazy changing time signatures and alternating times sigs don't bother me much personally but thats only because i have had a fair bit of experience with them. Im really into progressive atm aswell which uses some wacky time signature changes.

I really like alteranting time sigs such as going from 8/8 to 6/8 or 4/8 to 5/8 for example. Just like constantly alternating for say a verse and then differnt alterations for a chorus, thats a nice musical way of using more complex rhythms. Maybe your band mates would be up for that, so that at least the music is easier to follow.
Or
if you tried the gavin harrison concept of overriding the time signatures to create some kind of a back beat. That might work. Alternating time sigs can be really nice but sometimes horrible e.g. a video i put on pdf of me and one of my guitarists messing around with like a hypnotic 4/8 to 6/8 ide, that was nice (IMO) but nothing ever came of that idea, it was just an improv.

Good luck for convincing them to change

And lastly, i too like using rolls when i play, especially in jazz. A 2 beat roll, with a crescendo will get you out of ANY hole in jazz IMO hahaha. And rolling between hats and ride i like that in hip/funk grooves, nice touch. Rolls..... i like them........ with jam (that was lame)

The thing is, I think this band would benefit more from a flowing signature, without chopping out of numerous ones each bar. It's going to be a pub band, we're not going to be playing to highly rated musicians who can appreciate the music, these people just want entertainment and to tap their foot.

My second problem is, I've never really spent too much time practicing odd-time patterns, and exploring other time signatures. On on my priority list, I'm eager to pick up some books and DVD's to explore it. Got any recommendations, Dave? I know you're great with signatures and odd-time, did you learn this through teachers or books?

And by the way, I remember that small clip, and I absolutely loved the guitar riff, it was so hypnotizing.

I don't want to change how they play, because I would ruin something that's good. I just need them to work out new licks as an entire group more. Because then I can pull out a simple groove and they can work over it, and usually the results are nice.

Oh, and I definitely wouldn't mind checking out Gavin Harrison's concept.

[Dave-the-drummer]

The thing is, I think this band would benefit more from a flowing signature, without chopping out of numerous ones each bar. It's going to be a pub band, we're not going to be playing to highly rated musicians who can appreciate the music, these people just want entertainment and to tap their foot.

My second problem is, I've never really spent too much time practicing odd-time patterns, and exploring other time signatures. On on my priority list, I'm eager to pick up some books and DVD's to explore it. Got any recommendations, Dave? I know you're great with signatures and odd-time, did you learn this through teachers or books?

And by the way, I remember that small clip, and I absolutely loved the guitar riff, it was so hypnotizing.

I don't want to change how they play, because I would ruin something that's good. I just need them to work out new licks as an entire group more. Because then I can pull out a simple groove and they can work over it, and usually the results are nice.

Oh, and I definitely wouldn't mind checking out Gavin Harrison's concept.

Odd time is something i taught myself mostly,
But Mike Portnoy is the king of breaking them down and explaining them, and then shows examples through his dream theatre parts. His Instructional dvds are really good, i would reccomend any one of them.

Gavin Harrisons concept is good but really difficult on the old independence, sort of a mental issue to get your head around it (poly-rhythmic stuff) but its worth checking out as it really is a nice tool to have.

Just try to not think of it as being odd, and listen to as much music in that style as you can, dream theatre, christian mcbride (some stuff), loads of prog rock and jazz. Try to make it groove and flow rather than make it into a maths equation.

One tip to make things simpler is to break up big time sigs like 15/8 into smaller phrases like 8/8 + 7/8 or 5/8 + 6/8 +4/8. And then the choppy changing sigs won't seem so daunting. And the best bit of advice i can give is to break down most things above 10/8 and always count numbers as 1 syallble e.g. seven would become sev, so five, six sev, eight. Practice everything like rudiments in groups of 1/8 right through to 10/8 and find all the accent spots, it means you can just focus on the accents with kick and snare and make the sigs groove.

[Dave-the-drummer]

One great expamle of making an odd choppy time sigs flow is "tears of joy" by todd sucherman. Its so so smooth, blows my mind.

[Connor.]

Couldn't agree more. I love Todd's playing on that song, its so groovy and he does everything very tastefully.
That songs in something like 13/16 right?

[Dave-the-drummer]

Couldn't agree more. I love Todd's playing on that song, its so groovy and he does everything very tastefully.
That songs in something like 13/16 right?

Can't remember off the top of my head what it is, i know it changes a few times, i saw some online clips of a clinic where he broke it all down and explained it all but i can't remember off hand.
Its an excellent song, and he makes it look so so easy.

[Connor.]

Yeah, he played it/talked about it at a clinic he did here last year.
it was great.

[SKC]

Sup, broskis.

[Connor.]

I concur.
This forum has been dead lately.

What's crackin?

[SKC]

nothin' much, man. The PDF was getting pretty boring, and I miss this place.

[Connor.]

I agree.
The PDF is getting boring, I agree.
This place used to be so happening. I guess everyone except Shawn and I have lives

Anyways I have some news to share;

Some of you might remember my good friend loaning me a Paiste 20" Sound Creation Mellow Ride a while back. I gave him the cymbal back as I wasn't using it after aquiring my Dream ride. He gave me a kit to use for a while though. It's his "Frankenkit", let me explain:

His main kit is a Taye Studio Maple kit in a finish very similar to Mapex's Antique Ivory finish. The sizes of that kit are 24x19, 10x7, 12x8, 14x14, 16x16. He's only ever used the 24/12/16 setup practically since he got the kit, so the 10/14 sit on the sidelines. He recently bought a 20x18 Mapex Saturn bass drum in Antique Ivory for nezt to nothing to throw the toms on top of. Even still he barely ever used the small kit though so he said I can have it for a while.
He gave me a Epek Genesis Maple 13x6 snare to use aswell.

My friend is basically one of those guys who has a ton of nice gear but only ever uses a portion of it so he lets all his friends use the rest.
I'll get pics up soon.

[Taylor.]

I agree.
The PDF is getting boring, I agree.
This place used to be so happening. I guess everyone except Shawn and I have lives

Count me into that list as well.
Even when nothing's happening around here, I still tend to check in a few times a day. haha.

Congrats again on the loaner kit, Connor. Still looking forward to pics.

And Shawn, I know I told you on PDF, but I'm really stoked to see your new Yammies!


My parents are going on vacation to Florida this next week, which leaves me with the house. I'm inviting my band, and most of my other close musician friends over. Should be a good jam week. Hopefully by this time next week I'll have a few decent recordings to share with you guys. My band and I haven't had a chance to play together in months because we've been so busy. We're all really excited to see what comes out of it.

[Connor.]

Sounds sick Taylor, hope you guys can make the most of the time.

I have a group that's tryin to get started currently. We were supposed to jam yesturday actually, but two of the member couldn't make it for certain reasons. Hopefully we can get together soon, and start to write some material.

[Connor.]

I ordered a few things online a little while ago and they are currently in the mail.
Todd Sucherman - Methods and Mechanics for Useful Musical Drumming. (DVD)
Stanton Moore Trio - Emphasis! on Parenthasis (CD)
John Mayer - Battle Studies (Finally!)


Also, I got the monthly newsletter from Modern Drummer today and Stanton Moore is on the cover of the March issue. Stanton is a big influence of mine as of late so it should be good. There's also interviews with Jeff Hamilton and Will Calhoun, aswell as 'A Lesson with Max Roach' which looks great too.

[InSight.]

That's great news about your friend lending you his kit, either, you're a very trustworthy friend, or he's an extremely gracious person. You should be proud to have friends like that.

Also, great news to you too taylor. I've been doing similar over the past week and next week, as work has settled down a bit. Jammed/practiced wednesday, jammed/practiced today, jam/prac on monday, tuesday, and maybe later that week. All with 3 different groups.

And nice orders there Connor, that should keep you plenty busy. I'm going to do similar, and order a stack of books through amazon. I won't work on them all at once, but I'll gradually learn from each. I should also buy MD rather than DRUM!, so over all their interviews being on the latest bands that are sending teenage girls wild. Though I love their plugged in section.

That's news, for now. I've got something arriving next week, very excited.

[Connor.]

I have a subscription to MD and have for the past couple years now. Its a great magazine, full of great interviews with established players rather than being full of pop-punk drummers. They have some really good educational sections with some nice transcriptions too.

[Connor.]

Here's those kit pics:

[InSight.]

Whoa, nice! How does the snare sound with a clear batter? And you have such an amazing cymbal array, so nice.

[Dave-the-drummer]

That kit looks pretty nifty.
I use one of those heads on my orchestra/ wind band snare. Its pretty muffled sounding but really sounds good for what i need.

[Dave-the-drummer]

Hey dudes, some quick pics of my kit:
No thread as im gettin a tambourine and stuff soon so ill wait until then but here are pics of my kit.
Specs if needed:

15" new beats
20" ping
17" exotic

10" 12" 14" toms
22" kick
13" and 14" snares (13"= amb, 14"=fs)

LP cowbell
Yamaha RM sig jingle wedge

[Connor.]

Whoa, nice! How does the snare sound with a clear batter? And you have such an amazing cymbal array, so nice.

It sounds pretty good. Thats the head that was on it when I got it, but I might throw a coated ambassador on it for a little more warmth, and the enable bruch playing allthough the 13" size doesnt give you a lot of 'real estate' for brush playing anyways.

Yeah, im pretty satisfired with my cymbals at the moment. I'd like to eventually pick up a Meinl Dark or Extra Dry Splash though. Im also thinking of selling/trading in my Sabian Vault 16/19 crashes. I don't really use them much any more as I find them just too bright for my liking. I'd like to pick up a Bosphorus 20" Stanton Moore Pang Thang or Jeff Hamilton China for the far right side eventually too.

Hey dudes, some quick pics of my kit:
No thread as im gettin a tambourine and stuff soon so ill wait until then but here are pics of my kit.
Specs if needed:

Cool setup Dave. I assume that's the Shine snare you were talking about earlier? looks good.

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