Metro Drums.

Wow, that's the first Chambered snare I actually like

Really? Nah, far too busy for my liking. It would be a nice snare to have in a trophy cabinet though.

So I’ve been giving it a bit of thought, and I’m slowly putting things together. I think I’ve got the sizes down, although I’m slightly unsure of the bass drum depth; 15” or 16”. Just for a slightly shorter tone I guess, although I doubt it would be even audible for such a small differentiation. Now I’m just thinking about wood hoops, for both sound and aesthetics. Since I don’t know the different sound characteristics I’m basing this on aesthetics. I think I may go with brushbox hoops, as they are apparently a ‘lighter brown’, similar to that of the finish I’d get. But what do you guys think, should I get them both fairly similar, of have a very natural hoop, most likely beech? I’m really not sure of the differences in sound; I don’t think they’d be too different. And I’d like to hear what the density is for each material, but once again I doubt it would change the sound all that much.
Man, I bet this thread is boring and repetitive to read our thoughts over and over. I’d just appreciate some opinions behind my decisions. It always makes me feel better about what I’m doing, although this is still quite awhile away, I’d just like to get everything down earlier. Then slowly change bits and pieces with time and after talking with Paul more.

InSight. wrote:So I’ve been giving it a bit of thought, and I’m slowly putting things together. I think I’ve got the sizes down, although I’m slightly unsure of the bass drum depth; 15” or 16”. Just for a slightly shorter tone I guess, although I doubt it would be even audible for such a small differentiation.

The sound difference will be very insignificant. You could basically just pick which one you think looks better, because heads and tuning will negate the 1" difference in depth.

InSight. wrote:Now I’m just thinking about
wood hoops, for both sound and aesthetics. Since I don’t know the
different sound characteristics I’m basing this on aesthetics. I think
I may go with brushbox hoops, as they are apparently a ‘lighter brown’,
similar to that of the finish I’d get. But what do you guys think,
should I get them both fairly similar, of have a very natural hoop,
most likely beech? I’m really not sure of the differences in sound; I
don’t think they’d be too different. And I’d like to hear what the
density is for each material, but once again I doubt it would change
the sound all that much.

Aesthetically, I think the beech hoops would look better. As for sound, I think the different woods would all sound fairly similar, I think the weight may be the thing that changes the sound the most. Like, die-cast hoops are heavy, and therefore control the sound of the drum, whereas the wood hoops are lighter, so they let the drum open up. As for the density of each wood, according to the Janka hardness test:
Beech- 1686
Jarrah- 1910
Brushbox 2135
Maple- 1450

So, Beech is the softest, Brushbox is the densest, so the Brushbox might control the sound a little bit more, but I doubt it would be too noticeable. And seeing as Beech is the closest to maple, it would have about the same effect that your maple hoops had on your snare. Maybe have a little talk with Paul, he would be more knowledgable. And for more info on the Janka Hardness test, consult Wikipedia. It's really handy to see how dense some of the different woods are.

InSight. wrote:
Man, I bet this thread is boring and
repetitive to read our thoughts over and over. I’d just appreciate some
opinions behind my decisions. It always makes me feel better about what
I’m doing, although this is still quite awhile away, I’d just like to
get everything down earlier. Then slowly change bits and pieces with
time and after talking with Paul more.

I don't care, even if other people find it incredibly boring. It's good to get all of your thoughts out, and see what other people reckon.

Levi. wrote:
Aesthetically, I think the beech hoops would look better. As for sound, I think the different woods would all sound fairly similar, I think the weight may be the thing that changes the sound the most. Like, die-cast hoops are heavy, and therefore control the sound of the drum, whereas the wood hoops are lighter, so they let the drum open up. As for the density of each wood, according to the Janka hardness test:
Beech- 1686
Jarrah- 1910
Brushbox 2135
Maple- 1450

So, Beech is the softest, Brushbox is the densest, so the Brushbox might control the sound a little bit more, but I doubt it would be too noticeable. And seeing as Beech is the closest to maple, it would have about the same effect that your maple hoops had on your snare. Maybe have a little talk with Paul, he would be more knowledgable. And for more info on the Janka Hardness test, consult Wikipedia. It's really handy to see how dense some of the different woods are.

I don't know, I like the idea of both. A matching kit always looks very classy, as does a natural hoop over a general finish. I guess I'll just have a look around.

Thanks for finding that information, Levi. Very interesting, that makes the Beech sound very attractive. The density of the brushbox is crazy compared to maple. I doubt it would be all that noticeable in the end, and I'd like to try and replicate the maple. I can imagine the open, resonant toms. Mmm.

The density would control a lot of the flexibility, would it not? Along with the construction thickness. I'd like the extra flexibility, as that way it can take on tuning of both a die-cast hoops and triple flanged hoop. I've never been a big fan of a die-cast on the toms as I'd rather full resonance, so obviously I'd like the same with the wood hoops. Though harder to tune with, I think it'd be worth it.

How about you Levi, have you got most of your ideas together? I'm just putting bit by bit together. I know most simply come out and say 'I want this and this, and this.' But I'd rather think it through, really make sure what I want is what I want.

InSight. wrote:
I don't know, I like the idea of both. A matching kit always looks very classy, as does a natural hoop over a general finish. I guess I'll just have a look around.

Yeah, I don't think anything will look bad. I'd just prefer the contrast of the lighter colour.

InSight. wrote:
Thanks for
finding that information, Levi. Very interesting, that makes the Beech
sound very attractive. The density of the brushbox is crazy compared to
maple. I doubt it would be all that noticeable in the end, and I'd like
to try and replicate the maple. I can imagine the open, resonant toms.
Mmm.

Yeah, I like getting on Wikipedia every once in a while and just looking over it. The hardest wood is Ironwood, which is 4500. Some guy on Drummerworld had a kit made out of it. It was made in Australia, and they cut the shells out tree trunks, so it's solid single ply.

InSight. wrote:

The density would control a lot of the flexibility, would
it not? Along with the construction thickness. I'd like the extra
flexibility, as that way it can take on tuning of both a die-cast hoops
and triple flanged hoop. I've never been a big fan of a die-cast on the
toms as I'd rather full resonance, so obviously I'd like the same with
the wood hoops. Though harder to tune with, I think it'd be worth it.

Yeah, the denser, the harder and more rigid.

InSight. wrote:
How
about you Levi, have you got most of your ideas together? I'm just
putting bit by bit together. I know most simply come out and say 'I
want this and this, and this.' But I'd rather think it through, really
make sure what I want is what I want.

I'm pretty sure about what i want now, but I'm almost certain that it will change. Like, when I'm thinking about kits, I'll say, yep, I'm definitely getting that. So, I'll be stuck on that idea for a while, then I'll completely change direction. I think I'm fairly set for now, and I might change a few little things later on.

Levi. wrote:Yeah, I don't think anything will look bad. I'd just prefer the contrast of the lighter colour.

I know both will look great, just trying to pick out my favourite is hard

Levi. wrote:Yeah, I like getting on Wikipedia every once in a while and just looking over it. The hardest wood is Ironwood, which is 4500. Some guy on Drummerworld had a kit made out of it. It was made in Australia, and they cut the shells out tree trunks, so it's solid single ply.

That's crazy, like a metal drum? What's the density of an average steel? It must be strong, I wonder how it would sound then.

Levi. wrote:Yeah, the denser, the harder and more rigid.

Thanks for clarifying. I guess right now Beech is a favourite, I'd just need to see if he could finish it similar to that of the Blackwood kit. If not, no biggie.

Levi. wrote:I'm pretty sure about what i want now, but I'm almost certain that it will change. Like, when I'm thinking about kits, I'll say, yep, I'm definitely getting that. So, I'll be stuck on that idea for a while, then I'll completely change direction. I think I'm fairly set for now, and I might change a few little things later on.

Care to share any of the ideas? I know you want an ash burl, and I'm pretty sure on your sizes. Hmm, what else is there? Flanged hoops? Ply/Thickness? Will it be a natural ash burl? I don't blame you if you can't be bothered answering, I'm just curious is all

InSight. wrote:
I know both will look great, just trying to pick out my favourite is hard

I know, it's fun but frustrating trying to pick out of two awesome things.

InSight. wrote:
That's crazy, like a metal drum? What's the density of an average steel? It must be strong, I wonder how it would sound then.

Haha, no, not actual "iron", it's a wood called ironwood. The company that makes them is called Spirit Drums, and they're Australian. They make all of their kits from Ironwood, sourced from Cooktown, which is a few hundred km's north of Townsville. Here's the guy's from DrummerWorld:

InSight. wrote:Thanks for clarifying. I guess right now Beech is a favourite, I'd
just need to see if he could finish it similar to that of the Blackwood
kit. If not, no biggie.

I'm pretty sure Paul could do it, after all, he can do anything.

InSight. wrote:
Care to share any of the ideas? I know you want an ash burl, and I'm
pretty sure on your sizes. Hmm, what else is there? Flanged hoops?
Ply/Thickness? Will it be a natural ash burl? I don't blame you if you
can't be bothered answering, I'm just curious is all

Right now, it's going to be natural satin Ash Burl, I don't know whether to go for the cheaper satin or the expensive satin yet. Umm, triple flanged hoops on the toms. 6 ply shell for the toms, 8 ply for the bass. I'm going to go for the lugs that he uses on most of his drums, you know, the ones you hate. Don't worry, I'm always up for talking about my plans for my kit.

Levi. wrote:Haha, no, not actual "iron", it's a wood called ironwood. The company that makes them is called Spirit Drums, and they're Australian. They make all of their kits from Ironwood, sourced from Cooktown, which is a few hundred km's north of Townsville. Here's the guy's from DrummerWorld:

Haha, I know they're not literally. I was saying if they are similar to that of a steel drum, as you said they had an extreme density, and were made straight from tree trunks. Must be hard making a 24" kick then.
They're very different, I'm not sure if I like the idea too much.

Levi. wrote:I'm pretty sure Paul could do it, after all, he can do anything.

I like your trust in his skills

Levi. wrote:Right now, it's going to be natural satin Ash Burl, I don't know whether to go for the cheaper satin or the expensive satin yet. Umm, triple flanged hoops on the toms. 6 ply shell for the toms, 8 ply for the bass. I'm going to go for the lugs that he uses on most of his drums, you know, the ones you hate. Don't worry, I'm always up for talking about my plans for my kit.

Nice choices, it should look and sound amazing. Ah ha, don't you hate difficult decisions, what do you like more? You'd hope the cheaper one for price! I'm still torn on ply's, I'll just keep it in the back of my mind.
Eww, yuck lugs! Haha, they don't look all too bad on toms, but the full length ones on snares are hideous (IMO). I'd prefer mini tube-lugs over his any day, hence why I will

InSight. wrote:
Haha, I know they're not literally. I was saying if they are similar to that of a steel drum, as you said they had an extreme density, and were made straight from tree trunks. Must be hard making a 24" kick then.
They're very different, I'm not sure if I like the idea too much.

I dunno, I think steel is still quite a bit denser, and it would have a different sound as it's wood. Actually, the biggest size they do is 20", because they can't get any logs big enough to do any larger.

InSight. wrote:
Nice
choices, it should look and sound amazing. Ah ha, don't you hate
difficult decisions, what do you like more? You'd hope the cheaper one
for price! I'm still torn on ply's, I'll just keep it in the back of my
mind.
Eww, yuck lugs! Haha, they don't look all too bad on toms, but
the full length ones on snares are hideous (IMO). I'd prefer mini
tube-lugs over his any day, hence why I will

I think I'll end up going with the cheaper one, simply for the cost, and that he said it's more "natural".

Haha. Actually, I think I agree with you. The tube lugs he uses on most of his snares are just like regular tubes, but they're just bulkier and bigger.

Also, while I'm here, I've been having a think about the sizes. I've been thinking about if I want to add on later. I'm pretty sure I won't add on any rack toms, but I might want to add another floor tom later. Now, if I want to add on a 14", I'll want a 12" rack, so I'll have 12, 14, 16. But if I want to add on an 18", I'd want a 13" rack, cos i don't like 12, 16, 18 setups, but I do like 13, 16, 18 setups. Also, I'm not too keen on 18" floor toms with 22" bass drums, so that sort of rules that out. I do like 18" floor toms with 24" basses, but the 22" is a certainty, so that rules the 18" out. So, I guess I'll go with 22, 12, 16, then maybe add on the 14" later. That should also work out well if I want to add a 18" or 20" bass drum somewhere down the track.

What do you think, Ash?

Levi. wrote:I dunno, I think steel is still quite a bit denser, and it would have a different sound as it's wood. Actually, the biggest size they do is 20", because they can't get any logs big enough to do any larger.

Yes, I'm sure of that. But they must be hard as rock! They'd be interesting to hear.
Ah ha, that's understandable. They'd be cutting down 200-year-old tree's for a 24" kick.

Levi. wrote:Haha. Actually, I think I agree with you. The tube lugs he uses on most of his snares are just like regular tubes, but they're just bulkier and bigger.

Yeah, they're far too bulky for my liking. I want as much of the finish to protrude and be visible, another reason I'm going for mini tube-lugs.

Levi. wrote:Also, while I'm here, I've been having a think about the sizes. I've been thinking about if I want to add on later. I'm pretty sure I won't add on any rack toms, but I might want to add another floor tom later. Now, if I want to add on a 14", I'll want a 12" rack, so I'll have 12, 14, 16. But if I want to add on an 18", I'd want a 13" rack, cos i don't like 12, 16, 18 setups, but I do like 13, 16, 18 setups. Also, I'm not too keen on 18" floor toms with 22" bass drums, so that sort of rules that out. I do like 18" floor toms with 24" basses, but the 22" is a certainty, so that rules the 18" out. So, I guess I'll go with 22, 12, 16, then maybe add on the 14" later. That should also work out well if I want to add a 18" or 20" bass drum somewhere down the track.

What do you think, Ash?

Well, as you may have noticed I've never been one for big sizes. I could definitely handle a 12, 14 & 16. But honestly, I think the bigger 13, 16 and 18" set-ups look plain tacky. Sure they may sound nice, but for what I do they're useless and pointless. I'm not entirely sure what contexts you'd use them in, in other words, what musical genres you're most into. But obviously, I'd definitely prefer the smaller 12, 14, 16. It's far more versatile, you can do a small 12 and 14" set-up for jazz, as the 12 and 14 always blend beautifuly. And add the 16 for a tight, rockier set-up. Not so much possible with the bigger set-up. And as you said yourself, you'd prefer this set-up as well. I personally think I'd be a more wise decision.

InSight. wrote:
Yes, I'm sure of that. But they must be hard as rock! They'd be interesting to hear.
Ah ha, that's understandable. They'd be cutting down 200-year-old tree's for a 24" kick.

Yeah, it's got lots of other uses, like, anywhere where someone needs something super hard and super heavy.

InSight. wrote:
Well,
as you may have noticed I've never been one for big sizes. I could
definitely handle a 12, 14 & 16. But honestly, I think the bigger
13, 16 and 18" set-ups look plain tacky. Sure they may sound nice, but
for what I do they're useless and pointless. I'm not entirely sure what
contexts you'd use them in, in other words, what musical genres you're
most into. But obviously, I'd definitely prefer the smaller 12, 14, 16.
It's far more versatile, you can do a small 12 and 14" set-up for jazz,
as the 12 and 14 always blend beautifuly. And add the 16 for a tight,
rockier set-up. Not so much possible with the bigger set-up. And as you
said yourself, you'd prefer this set-up as well. I personally think I'd
be a more wise decision.

There, you've just convinced me to go with 12 and 16. The 13, 16, 18 could be amazing in a loud rock setting, but maybe not for some of the other genres. And I love the sound of the smaller drums. But JJ Johnson does make the 13, 16, 18 sound very good, as does Ben Gillies, but, yeah, the 12, 14, 16 does sound alot more appealing to me.

Levi. wrote:There, you've just convinced me to go with 12 and 16. The 13, 16, 18 could be amazing in a loud rock setting, but maybe not for some of the other genres. And I love the sound of the smaller drums. But JJ Johnson does make the 13, 16, 18 sound very good, as does Ben Gillies, but, yeah, the 12, 14, 16 does sound alot more appealing to me.

Oh, I don't like the feeling that I've talked someone into such a big decision, I'd feel really guilty if later on they look back and regret the decision. Make sure you think about it well, and don't use my opinion as a primary reason! Ha-ha.

No, don't worry . I was always heading towards the 12, 16. But I was just thinking about the 13, 16, just to see what the possibilities could be. I just want to cover every base before I make the decision. So don't worry, you have no reason to feel bad about anything, haha.

Phew, well that's okay. I've never liked 13" toms, they've just always seemed unreasonable and inconvenient, a pretty in-between drum. Also somewhat of an annoyance to comfortably position, depending on the circumstances.

Dang, Australia has a better selection of drum wood types than the USA. Talk about land of the regulated...

InSight. wrote:Phew, well that's okay. I've never liked 13" toms, they've just always seemed unreasonable and inconvenient, a pretty in-between drum. Also somewhat of an annoyance to comfortably position, depending on the circumstances.

Yeah, I much prefer 12" toms, most of the time. Sometimes I'll wanna have a 13" tom, but my love for 12" rack toms much outweighs that. I actually used my 13" tom for the last recording my band did, only because the heads on it were newer than the ones on the 12". It actually sounded pretty phenomenal.

SKC wrote:Dang, Australia has a better selection of drum wood types than the USA. Talk about land of the regulated...

Yes, but the price of drum gear over there is way cheaper than over here. Sure, Metros are a good price, but 99% of all drum gear is way overpriced over here. So I think we're pretty even, actually, I'd probably rather the cheap prices than the good selection of wood.

Levi. wrote:Yes, but the price of drum gear over there is way cheaper than over here. Sure, Metros are a good price, but 99% of all drum gear is way overpriced over here. So I think we're pretty even, actually, I'd probably rather the cheap prices than the good selection of wood.

This. Although nice it is, most other gear is just crazishly priced. I'm glad there are good people out there such as Paul who construct top-quality drums for a reasonable price. I mean, just looking at some gear prices, it's just plain stupid. Why I should pay $3,500 for an MCX whilst they're $1,500 in the US is stupid. I can only just get a forum for that price now. Cymbals are the same, $1,000 for a nice ride, what utter rubbish.

Yes Ash, crazishly :¡This Cheese is Burning Me!: .

It hurts to see all you guys get awesome gear for very little $, compared to us. If I remember right, Conor got his Renown for about $1300. Over here, for that money you could only get a low level intermediate kit. And 20" Artisans go for $1300 over here.

But the crazy prices just show how dedicated you are to getting some amazing gear, like your cymbals, Ash.

Levi. wrote:Yes Ash, crazishly :¡This Cheese is Burning Me!: .

It hurts to see all you guys get awesome gear for very little $, compared to us. If I remember right, Conor got his Renown for about $1300. Over here, for that money you could only get a low level intermediate kit. And 20" Artisans go for $1300 over here.

But the crazy prices just show how dedicated you are to getting some amazing gear, like your cymbals, Ash.

$1,300 is a very small amount over here, to me that's considered piss-weak money. To be able to afford a kit with that money, a half-decent kit is just unthinkable. I understand there is a difference in currency's, one that greatly changed the all-up price of our gear. But then prices are also extremely inflated, and it's just getting worse and worse. I could talk on this subject for quite a while, but I don't want to be sitting here for an hour typing, so I'll leave it at that.

Dedicated all-right, my god. To be 15-years-old and having spent $5,000 of my own cash on my gear is dedication!

InSight. wrote:
$1,300 is a very small amount over here, to me that's considered piss-weak money. To be able to afford a kit with that money, a half-decent kit is just unthinkable. I understand there is a difference in currency's, one that greatly changed the all-up price of our gear. But then prices are also extremely inflated, and it's just getting worse and worse. I could talk on this subject for quite a while, but I don't want to be sitting here for an hour typing, so I'll leave it at that.

Dedicated all-right, my god. To be 15-years-old and having spent $5,000 of my own cash on my gear is dedication!

Yeah, everyone knows, or at least should know, that Australia's prices are overpriced to max. I think me, you, and most other Aussie drummers could go on for ages about having to pay outrageous prices for things that cost half as much everywhere else, but, as you know, we must stay on topic.

Whoa, $5000. That's impressive, I've stopped counting how much I've spent, but I think it's around 3K to 4K. Buying the Dreams instead of Big 3 cymbals certainly saved me quite a bit.

Levi. wrote:Whoa, $5000. That's impressive, I've stopped counting how much I've spent, but I think it's around 3K to 4K. Buying the Dreams instead of Big 3 cymbals certainly saved me quite a bit.

I'd assume that a total would be around the 5K mark. Obviously far more recently since I got my job, 3 $1,000 cymbals, hardware, skins, etc. But before that I was spending quite a bit on my Alpha's, Eliminators and a lot of hardware etc.

Yeah, I think buying my Gretsch kit worked out really well for me. I did upgrade all of the cymbals, but it came with a set of Gibraltar hardware, and I've only had to buy one extra cymbal stand. Buying hardware isn't all that fun, unless it enables me to mount some new piece of gear, or something like that.

Also while I'm here, could you do me big favour? Could you get on cymbalsplus.com, and have a look at the 20" Vintage Bliss crash ride that's for sale(there's 2 on the site, and one's already sold), and tell me what you think. Use your unbiased ears. I think the stick sound is good, the crash is good and the wash sounds good, but the wash sorta overpowers the clicky stick, sort of like muffling it. I dunno if I'll get it, but I just want to see what someone else thinks.

Levi. wrote:Yeah, I think buying my Gretsch kit worked out really well for me. I did upgrade all of the cymbals, but it came with a set of Gibraltar hardware, and I've only had to buy one extra cymbal stand. Buying hardware isn't all that fun, unless it enables me to mount some new piece of gear, or something like that.

Also while I'm here, could you do me big favour? Could you get on cymbalsplus.com, and have a look at the 20" Vintage Bliss crash ride that's for sale(there's 2 on the site, and one's already sold), and tell me what you think. Use your unbiased ears. I think the stick sound is good, the crash is good and the wash sounds good, but the wash sorta overpowers the clicky stick, sort of like muffling it. I dunno if I'll get it, but I just want to see what someone else thinks.

I’ve always had an itch for hardware; actually I used to obsess over it. I’d always be researching and dreaming, I just had a real interest in it. Actually it’s still exciting for me to get nice new hardware, such as my flat-base. I was stocked when I picked them up.

I like it, very dark, woody, slightly complex yet still very clean, the wash doesn’t wash out the woody sticking, which is still prominent. Though it could be better, as you can tell I have an ear for more dry rides with less wash, but I really like this one. I’d like the sticking to be a bit more audible and defined, but it’s definitely still lovely. So in all, I really like it. I would definitely like to own that, though I’m after something different with totally different characteristics from my current ride(s), which would rule out this one. It’s actually one of the nice Dreams that I’ve heard, many have been so bright, with that tinny/metallic character. That drives me nuts, reminds me of the K 22” Light Ride.

InSight. wrote:
I’ve always had an itch for hardware; actually I used to obsess over it. I’d always be researching and dreaming, I just had a real interest in it. Actually it’s still exciting for me to get nice new hardware, such as my flat-base. I was stocked when I picked them up.

I think I'd be excited if I changed all my hardware over to flat base, but other than that, I don't really care. I'll get annoyed if I get a new piece of gear, then I don't have anything to mount it off.

InSight. wrote:
I like it, very dark, woody, slightly complex yet
still very clean, the wash doesn’t wash out the woody sticking, which
is still prominent. Though it could be better, as you can tell I have
an ear for more dry rides with less wash, but I really like this one.
I’d like the sticking to be a bit more audible and defined, but it’s
definitely still lovely. So in all, I really like it. I would
definitely like to own that, though I’m after something different with
totally different characteristics from my current ride(s), which would
rule out this one. It’s actually one of the nice Dreams that I’ve
heard, many have been so bright, with that tinny/metallic character.
That drives me nuts, reminds me of the K 22” Light Ride.

I dunno, just listening back to it, it seems like the wash is always on the verge of washing out the stick. It sounds like it's been played with some massive oval tip, so if I played it with my SD2's ball tip I think it could clean it up and make the stick sound even woodier, and more defined. This ride (whichever one I end up with) is really gonna have to be a great crash/ride. I'm gonna look to use it as a big crash, and a ride, and I want it to do both of those really well. The crash on the Vintage seems really nice, and it sounds like it opens up easily. I want a really woody stick sound, like, super woody. The Vintage is very woody, but it does sort of put me off, with the wash being so overpowering. I might have to just jump in and go for it.

Another thing, it will almost certainly dry out quite a bit, as it wears in. My 22" was way out of control when I got it, but then after only 2 or 3 days, it calmed down heaps.

Actually, I don't think I've ever had a ride wash out on me when I was using the ball tips. Every ride I've used them on, it always makes the stick sound tight and defined.